At the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference in February of 2008, Bill Boyd gave a talk entitled, "Renewing Worship."   Because of a contract with a publisher the transcript is not available. However,  you may listen to the audio of Bill's talk by clicking (here).

This is the third week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 29-October 2 we will host essays from Reggie Kidd, Philip Ryken, Carl Ellis and John Muether  in response to Bill Boyd's talk. On Friday, October 3,  Bill will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Bill's  talk and/or the response essays.

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Philip Ryken is the senior minister of Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia. He serves on the boards of Wheaton College, Westminster Theological Seminary and is a council member of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.  Dr. Ryken has written many books, including City on a Hill: Reclaiming the Biblical Pattern of the Church in the 21st Century.

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There is so much to appreciate in Bill Boyd’s talk on “Worship that Renews” that I could almost wish I had been cast as a “simpatico” rather than a “critical” respondent.

 My sympathies will always lie with anyone who commends God-centered worship. I also resonate with seeing respect for the worship traditions of the historic church as a matter of obedience to the Fifth Commandment, although I would add that such respect is one very good way to practice the communion of the saints—an oft-neglected and badly-needed doctrine in the PCA today. No argument from me (or from Calvin, for that matter) on the frequent celebration of the Lord’s Supper, either. Read more

At the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference in February of 2008, Bill Boyd gave a talk entitled, "Renewing Worship."   Because of a contract with a publisher the transcript is not available. However,  you may listen to the audio of Bill's talk by clicking (here).

This is the third week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 29-October 2 we will host essays from Reggie Kidd, Phil Ryken, Carl Ellis and John Muether  in response to Bill Boyd's talk. On Friday, October 3,  Bill will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Bill's  talk and/or the response essays.

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Reggie Kidd is a Professor of New Testament at RTS/Orlando. He is also on the faculty of the Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies. Starting in January 2009 Reggie will serve as a Contributing Editor, Worship Leader Magazine. He is the author of With One Voice, a well-received work on the theology of song in worship.

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Bill Boyd’s talk invites comment on a number of things, but I will confine myself to two points of particular simpatinicity:

The Meal:

Bravo for the stress on the Table. I appreciate Bill’s telling the “story” of the meal in Scripture. At critical points in redemptive-history, the Table marked a climax of sorts, e.g., when the elders dined in God’s presence on Mt. Sinai (Exod. 24). Moreover, the Bible promises that the culmination of redemption’s story will be a wedding feast (Rev. 19:1-10; 22:14-17). The Table makes the gospel a matter of “show and tell”; it portrays the God who speaks and acts. The Table powerfully weds head and heart. Moreover, I appreciate that what Bill is talking about is the wedding of Table and the Word, not a reactionary elevation of Table over Word.

Let the Word be read! Let the sermon explain the text! Let the Table preach the text again! Then let our lives preach it one more time!

A point perhaps he could have made: greater frequency of Communion is not the only way to guard against Gnosticism. Historically, Reformers voiced two biblically derived concerns. First, that people be permitted to come, but second that they be prepared to do so. Godly reformed leaders disagreed over which concern was more important. Calvin lobbied for weekly Communion; his elders would not permit it. To his credit, he did not cut and run. The conversation has been a constant among us.

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In February 2008, Jeremy Jones  gave the second talk, "Renewing Theology,"  at the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference.  The transcript is not available due to a publishing contract, but you may listen to the audio of Jeremy's talk by clicking (here).

This is the second week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 22-25 we will host essays from John Frame, Sean Michael Lucas, Howard Brown, and Michael Walker in response to Jeremy Jones' talk. Today, September 26,  Jeremy responds to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Jeremy's  talk and/or the response essay.

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Jeremy Jones is an associate pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Memphis. He was the RUF campus minister at Southern Mississippi and then Emory.

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Thanks to Glenn for hosting and all the other participants for responding; it’s been encouraging to see this discussion take place.

I want to do two things in this response: give some context for the original Denominational Renewal talks that may assist everyone in understanding them better. And respond to a couple of the issues raised this week during the discussion of my presentation.

All of the talks we’re interacting with via Common Grounds were first given at a conference held last spring in St. Louis. The “Conversation on Denominational Renewal” started with an opening introduction given by Joe Novenson (based on a brief talk given by Jeff White at Covenant Seminary earlier that day). This intro set the table and tone for the conference and made clear our purpose: to outline a theological vision for the future of the PCA. Our explicit intention was not to organize as some political action group, nor did we wish to wade into current denominational “hot button” debates (FV/NPP, etc) and argue for one side rather than another. In our understanding, the more specific doctrinal debates within the PCA are often the result of conflicting theological visions that exist in our church. Until we can identify, discuss, and debate these alternative visions, the different factions in the PCA will keep talking past each other.

We wanted to start a conversation at this deeper level. Read more

In February 2008, Jeremy Jones  gave the second talk, "Renewing Theology,"  at the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference.  The transcript is not available due to a publishing contract, but you may listen to the audio of Jeremy's talk by clicking (here).

This is the second week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 22-25 we will host essays from John Frame, Sean Michael Lucas, Howard Brown, and Michael Walker in response to Jeremy Jones' talk. On Friday, September 26,  Jeremy will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Jeremy's  talk and/or the response essay.

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Michael R. Walker is the Theologian-in-Residence at Highland Park Presbyterian Church in Dallas, TX.  He is the former Executive Director of Presbyterians For Renewal and a Ph.D. Candidate in History of Doctrine at Princeton Theological Seminary.  The title of his dissertation is John Calvin's Pursuit of Happiness. His blog is at www.regulafidei.com.

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As an outsider to the Presbyterian Church in America, it is a privilege to participate in this forum by responding to Jeremy Jones' paper on "Renewing Theology" in the PCA.  My own ecclesial context, namely the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), is remarkably different from that of the PCA, in ways that do not require much description for those interested in the present conversation.  Suffice it to say that the PC(USA) is wrestling with all of the same root issues of ecclesial unity touched upon in Jones' paper, though it's much less clear in the PC(USA) that everyone is wrestling in the same arena. The doctrinal ambiguity of the PC(USA) and the rigorous confessional particularity of the PCA have played off of one another to such a degree that those who wish to combine genuine confessional commitments with an openness to further reform find themselves at odds with entrenched forces in their own denomination, whether that is the PCA or the PC(USA).  Unfortunately, this circumstance will not be overcome easily or quickly.

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In February 2008, Jeremy Jones  gave the second talk, "Renewing Theology,"  at the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference.  The transcript is not available due to a publishing contract, but you may listen to the audio of Jeremy's talk by clicking (here).

This is the second week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 22-25 we will host essays from John Frame, Sean Michael Lucas, Howard Brown, and Michael Walker in response to Jeremy Jones' talk. On Friday, September 26,  Jeremy will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Jeremy's  talk and/or the response essay.

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Howard Brown is the pastor of Christ Central Church in Charlotte, NC. Previously Rev. Brown was a church planting apprentice and assistant pastor at Redemption Fellowship Presbyterian in Atlanta, and he was the senior pastor of Forrest Park Community Church in Baltimore.

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 In calling for theological renewal in the way he does, Jeremy Jones’ is recommending nothing short of a denominational conniption. He successfully rips our reformed theological identity away from the comfort of its pseudo “golden age” of orthodoxy and describes our passionate defense and need for its exclusivity among other reformed traditions as an idolatrous sin of sectarianism. He wisely suggests that we seek a deeper reformation and renewal through a reformed catholicity and its broader theology. His call to this role reversal is revolutionary and prophetic. Jeremy turns our denomination on its head and out comes its cultural talisman, as he quotes- “we are THE church, and others aren’t” or I would add, aren’t as much as we.  Read more

In February 2008, Jeremy Jones  gave the second talk, "Renewing Theology,"  at the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference.  The transcript is not available due to a publishing contract, but you may listen to the audio of Jeremy's talk by clicking (here).

This is the second week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 22-25 we will host essays from John Frame, Sean Michael Lucas, Howard Brown, and Michael Walker in response to Jeremy Jones' talk. On Friday, September 26,  Jeremy will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Jeremy's  talk and/or the response essay.

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Sean Michael Lucas is the Chief Academic Officer and Associate Professor of Church History at Covenant Theological Seminary. He is the author of On Being Presbyterian: Our Beliefs, Practices, and Stories and Robert Lewis Dabney: A Southern Presbyterian Life.

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I’m grateful for the opportunity to respond to Jeremy Jones’ talk on “renewing theology.” Perhaps it might be helpful to start with areas of agreement and then move to some constructive response.

One major area of agreement could be summed up this way: the task of theology is to witness to the apostolic tradition for the present cultural moment. In order to witness, not only must theology seek to understand the apostolic tradition (biblical exegesis/Scripture), it must recognize its relationship to previous witnesses (historical theology/confessional tradition) as well as its current cultural moment. This way of putting it relates Scripture and confession in a hermeneutical spiral that both limits and offers opportunity for theological preservation and creativity. It also relieves us from trying to re-establish some sort of golden age; each age’s witness has something to offer us as we determine how God is calling us to witness to our own age.
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In February 2008, Jeremy Jones  gave the second talk, "Renewing Theology,"  at the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference.  The transcript is not available due to a publishing contract, but you may listen to the audio of Jeremy's talk by clicking (here).

This is the second week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 22-25 we will host essays from John Frame, Sean Michael Lucas, Howard Brown, and Michael Walker in response to Jeremy Jones' talk. On Friday, September 26,  Jeremy will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Jeremy's  talk and/or the response essay.

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John Frame is the Chair of Systematic Theology and Philosophy at Reformed Theological Seminary-Orlando. Formerly  John taught at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia and then Westminster Seminary of California. He is the author of many books and articles, including The Doctrine of the Knowledge of God, The Doctrine of God, and The Doctrine of the Christian Life.

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I’m very enthusiastic about Jones’s presentation, and I have no substantial criticisms of it. So what can I add? Here are several thoughts:

 1. We need to give more attention to the biblical doctrine of the unity of the church, both spiritual and governmental. In the interest of Reformed Catholicism, we need to see the present denominational differences in the church as an aberration, an anomaly. New Testament church government makes no provision for denominations. When factional spirit begins to emerge in the early church, the New Testament identifies it as sin and describes it as worldly wisdom (1 Cor. 1:10-31, 3:1-4). The birth of new denominations is always the result of sin, either by those who leave, or those who stay, or (more likely) both. So why do we glorify our separateness from other Christians? We should be mourning it instead and seeking to reverse it.

But this will mean that we will have to look at other traditions far more positively, acknowledging and celebrating what is good in them, rather than always trying to tear them down. We must reject the pride that seeks always to make our own group look better than the others.

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On February 26, 2008, Greg Thompson opened the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference with his talk, "Renewing Ethos." You may listen to Greg's talk by clicking (here).

This is the first week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 15-18 we have hosted essays from Tim Keller, Ligon Duncan, Rebecca Jones, and Dan Doriani in response to Greg Thompson's talk. Today, Greg responds to his respondents and those who have commented this week.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Greg's talk and/or the response essay.
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Greg Thompson serves as senior pastor and pastor for worship at Trinity Presbyterian Church in Charlottesville, Virginia. Before coming on staff at Trinity, he served as Reformed University Fellowship campus minister at the University of Virginia from 2000-2005. Greg graduated from the University of South Carolina and then attended Covenant Theological Seminary where he graduated in 2000. Greg and his wife Courtney have three daughters, Caroline (5), Margaret (3), and Ann (9 months).

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Thank you Glenn, for hosting this conversation. I really appreciate your careful selection of critical readers and your generous moderation of the discussion.

Thanks especially to Tim, Ligon, Rebecca, and Dan (can I call you Dan?), and also to all of you who took the time to listen to my words and to respond to them. I read each of your comments with real interest and with a desire to learn from you. Though it seems we still have a bit of work to do to in order to understand one another, I continue to think that this conversation matters very deeply, and I’m glad to be having it—although strangely mediated via the blogosphere—with you all.

Given the limitations of time, space, and medium, I think the most fruitful way to proceed is to respond to what seem to me to be the two most pressing concerns you raised.

The first (and most important) concern was that my talk suggests some sort of devaluation of truth in the interest of beauty. A number of the comments seemed to orbit around this concern: that in emphasizing moral beauty, I am therefore minimizing theological truth. That I am moving away from the objective realm of truth into the “sentimental” or subjective realm of “beauty.” That I am, to use Tim’s categories (which in this case unfortunately seem to obscure more than they illumine) a cultural-transformationist or a pietist who intends to take on the doctrinalists.

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On February 26, 2008, Greg Thompson opened the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference with his talk, "Renewing Ethos." You may listen to Greg's talk by clicking (here).

This is the first week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 15-18 we will host essays from Tim Keller, Ligon Duncan, Rebecca Jones, and Dan Doriani in response to Greg Thompson's talk. On Friday, Sept. 19, Greg will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Greg's talk and/or the response essay.
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Dan Doriani is the Senior Pastor of Central Presbyterian Church in St. Louis, a church in the EPC denomination.  He previously served as Dean of the Faculty, Vice President of Academics, and Professor of New Testament at Covenant Theological Seminary.  Dan has written numerous books, including The Life of a God-Made Man, Women and Ministry: What the Bible Teaches, The Sermon on the Mount, and his forthcoming commentary on Matthew.

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A fair response to this essay must begin with praise. It was simply a pleasure to read Greg Thompson’s essay, “Renewing Ethos.” Greg was a student of promise at Covenant Seminary in the 1990s and a member of a class that impressed the faculty for its blend of intellect, humility, passion, and sweetness of spirit. It is a joy to read a work that called us to gospel beauty and to hear it from a man now manifesting a deeper version of the traits he and his friends showed years before.Read more

On February 26, 2008, Greg Thompson opened the Denominational Renewal (DR) conference with his talk, "Renewing Ethos." You may listen to Greg's talk by clicking (here).

This is the first week of a five week forum scrutinizing the five talks given at DR. For more on the structure of the five week forum at CGO on this conference, click (here).

During the week of September 15-18 we will host essays from Tim Keller, Ligon Duncan, Rebecca Jones, and Dan Doriani in response to Greg Thompson's talk.  On Friday, Sept. 19,  Greg will respond to his respondents.

We welcome discussion that is both robust and gracious. I [Glenn] will moderate all comments and those comments that exemplify graciousness and love for one's brothers and sisters will be approved. First and last name, and one's current, valid email address are required for comments. Also, please focus on Greg's talk and/or the response essay.
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Rebecca Jones is a wife, a mother and the office manager for truthxchange.  Rebecca has served on the board of the San Diego Writers Guild and the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and is active in the PCA Women in the Church. She is the author of Does Christianity Squash Women?  Edmund Clowney, one of the most beloved men in the PCA, was her father, and she is married to Peter Jones, a former professor at Westminster Seminary California, and the director  of truthxchange.

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In its hospitality over many years, Greg’s church, Trinity in Charlottesville has expressed the loveliness of Christ to me, my sister, and my family, especially at the deaths of my parents, Ed (2005) and Jean (2008) Clowney. Trinity takes seriously its call to be the hands and feet of Christ. Thank you, Greg!

I grew up in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, surrounded by godly leaders who loved the Church, prayed for her purity, dreamed for her advancement, cried over her sins, and worked for her mission. But my life was parochial. It never occurred to me that the “Machen League” was a rather obscure name for a youth group! That all changed when I went off to college, and then to France. For nearly eighteen years, I had a “long-distance” relationship with the PCA. We became missionaries before the first General Assembly, which we attended in 1973. We joined the nearest PCA church, then flew to France. In 1991, we moved to California, where some members come to church in shorts, and others in suits. We are “provincial” in our own way.

I belong to a church that I think is in the same denomination as Greg’s, though he sees a PCA tainted by “arrogant schism, fortifying pride, presumptive affluence, suspicious paranoia, anxious gift-obsession, quarantined sectarianism and [intractable] provincialism.” 

If that’s the PCA, maybe we should all leave!

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